Voices of Fostering

Hannah - Understanding Educational Support in Fostering

• National Fostering Group • Season 3 • Episode 19

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In this episode of Voices of Fostering, we welcome Hannah, SENCO and Educational Lead at  National Fostering Group. She discusses her multifaceted role in providing educational support to foster carers and young people in care. Hannah shares insights on everything from managing educational challenges across different age groups to her career journey that led her to this vital work. She explains how the team helps prevent school exclusions, supports children with special educational needs, and assists with school refusal cases. Hannah also highlights the importance of collaborative relationships and tailored strategies to ensure every young person in foster care thrives. Tune in to learn more about the unique educational support foster carers receive at National Fostering Group and how it can make a significant difference in young people's lives.

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Helen:

Hello and welcome to this episode of Voices of Fostering, where today I'm joined by one of our wonderful team from the National Fostering Group. Hannah, who is our SENCO and educational lead. Welcome, Hannah. Hiya. Hello. Thank you so much for joining us today. Um, so Hannah, that job title, tell us about it. What does it mean?

Hannah:

Uh, well, it means Anything to do with education, I hopefully can help with. Um, so it's, it's a very interesting and complex role. Uh, obviously very multi layered. Um, but the idea is that any of our foster carers can, um, ask for additional support if there's an educational challenge that's impacting any of our young people in placement. Um, that can be from nursery right through to, um, looking at post 18 options or university work, careers advice and things like that. The role is designed to, to be there to, I guess, help, um, really with anything that, um, impacts in terms of education. And we want to be able to provide additional support. We know that if education is. not kind of running smoothly, then actually that massively impacts placement stability. Um, and just how our young people feel settled and how our hair is, are able to, to do their jobs really. Um, so yeah, our, our role is, um, there's myself and my colleague Helen who work in our team at the moment, and we can help in theory with anything, um, educational based. Uh, we, by low means, we know it all, but we have a fab network outside where we can tap into whether it's. nursery hours or SCN transport or, uh, looking at an educational healthcare plan, or maybe your young person is getting a lot of detentions at school and actually they would benefit from us having a look at the school's behavioural policy and supporting you to advocate, um, further for the young person. Um, but yeah, there's no end to hopefully our talents. Um, and we, we do aim to help wherever possible, um, either proactively or obviously reactively if things happen. Um, so proactively, uh, we've come out to support groups, we, we meet our carers as much as possible and, and look at a trail in or, um, discuss kind of, um, future things that might arise. So looking at transition to year seven or, or looking at, um, GCSE options or anything like that. But they're reactively as well, where on hand, if a young person gets an exclusion or if something that's happened at school and you need help kind of right now, we are on hand to be able to provide that, that reactive support.

Helen:

Before we dig down a bit more into, into that, um, Hannah, I just would like to know, About your career path, really, and what led you to working with the National Fostering Group?

Hannah:

Um, so, I guess, um, right early started with really bad careers advice at school. Um, so, so I feel really passionately about careers advice now, actually. Um, but I was told, yeah, definitely, you can 100 percent become a vet when you are not very good at science. Um, and I tried real hard at chemistry, um, but it just wasn't my subject. Um, so I had to do a quick U turn with my UCAS statement, um, and form, um, well, I was, uh, doing my A levels and I went off to uni to do psychology, which I completely fell in love with. Like I loved looking at, um, societal, societal impact, um, alongside neurodevelopment and things like that. I found it really interesting. Um, I was very much a cliche and came out of, um, uni and wanted to do the gap year. So I had to get a job first. Um, and the only thing I thought I would never do was, uh, be a teacher or work in education. Um, so I went and I, I went to a school, um, and I saved up, did some traveling, but came back and realized that actually the holidays at schools were great. I could definitely continue to travel and do things with that. Um, I then, yeah, I guess, I guess I fell into schools really. Um, I really enjoyed working with different young people. I, I worked predominantly with secondary aged young people, um, as sick swimmers and I just really loved it. seeing them become their own person and, and really watching that character development at that age and the banter that you could have with young people and, and just really supporting them. Like I was not supported into the right career path, but understanding their options. I've worked in various different schools. Um, I was head of provision, uh, uh, special needs provision. Um, I've worked in grammar's and mainstream, social comps and, and being a governor and various other roles. Um, but after, um, After becoming head of provision, I, although I really enjoyed the role, um, it became a lot about, uh, risk assessments and ordering PPE through the pandemic. Um, and I found that I wasn't actually interacting with the young people, which was something I really loved. Um, so I left that role and moved into the charity sector, uh, where I became an employment coach for young people with additional needs. Um, absolutely love that role as well. It's really about supporting the young people from not having even a CV right through to the first six months in the job. Um, obviously with charitable contract, um, contracts, they're often a short term, so I'd started to look for other roles, um, and this role came up and seemed to really interesting. Um, and I got through the interview somehow, they let me in, which I'm super grateful for even to this day. And I've been here nearly 2 years. Um, so yeah, lots of different educational experience and learning some character experience in terms of that, that career aspect, which I think is really important for young people because it's not always about academic achievements. Um, but yeah, that's it. That was a long version, probably.

Helen:

Well, I enjoyed it. Thank you very much. So, Hannah, now working with looked after children and young people, how does that differ or compare to the other settings that you've worked in?

Hannah:

I don't know that it differs because I still worked with a lot of young people who were care experienced or in care at the time. So I think it's about, same with every young person, it's about understanding. Their journey, where they've been, where they want to get to and helping them with the steps to get there and often providing options for them to get there. Because I think a lot of our young people have a lot of decisions that are made for them, um, by well intentioned professionals, but actually with education, you have the options to look at different pathways, whether you're looking at college or apprenticeships or, you know, different GCSE options. And I think there's different routes to get our young people to where they want to be. And I think even them. Choices is so important. Um, so I don't know that it differs because every young person is important. They're, they're kind of the future, aren't they? Um, and I think it's about allowing all of them to, to absolutely thrive and achieve their potential. But I often think with our young people, um, who've been in care, as I said, choices are often made for them. So it's about making sure that they have, um, The empowerment, um, and yeah, just the knowledge so that they can make those choices for themselves. Um, and you know, if they make mistakes, we're there along the outside as, as a, our carers to, to support and provide that kind of cotton wool, I guess, around the outside while, while they work forward or the stabilizers. But yeah, so it's, it's, it's not different, but it's just. Maybe more intense at this stage, just to, just to support and hope that we can guide other professionals to, to make the right choices and to be given all the options rather than the ones that maybe we feel are best. But yeah, to allow that child's voice I think.

Helen:

So let's just focus on a couple of different areas of your job really, things that you mentioned a few minutes ago. Um, in particular, As you said, if, if, uh, um, if somebody had a child or young person in their care and they were excluded from school, how, how would that look, Hannah, and how would you support them?

Hannah:

Um, so in terms of support, obviously, um, exclusions happen and schools have to legally provide a letter that day that explains the details of the exclusion. So what we would say to our carers is to reach out to us. Um, and we can kind of look at that letter and firstly, make sure that kind of the legal aspects have been done as they're meant to have been done. And then I guess it's deciding on what, what steps we want to do to, to take that forward. So, so was it a justified exclusion or, and was it proportionate based on kind of what happens? Um, if it was, then it's talking about how we access the right support. from back to school readings and making sure that the carers can best advocate for their young person. Because obviously if something has gone wrong, um, young people aren't inherently bad. No person is inherently bad, but it's about what was it that triggered them to have a reaction, whether that be that they've been aggressive or they've knocked something over or, you know, whatever that might be. So it's about how we then can repair the relationship with the staff at the school, um, and make sure that that young person feels safe going back into that. but that there's the right changes for them to be able to access and hopefully not have that incident happen again. Um, I think if it's, if it's more serious, um, it's then looking at different support. So is there an underlying lead that's not being met? Do we need to be looking at getting an educational psychologist involved and applying for an educational healthcare plan, all of which we can support with? Um, but it will be obviously case by case, it's completely individualized to that young person and also their voice and what their experiences at school is there. Is there more that they feel the school could be doing? Did they feel that it's Justified treatment. Is it that there, there's something underlying there that we need to unpick, um, to, to move that forward?

Helen:

Well, yeah, because of course, your role, I imagine is very much preventing that from happening and, and working with families to, to to, to keep that from happening, to, you know, to keep away from that, that ultimate exclusion.

Hannah:

Yeah, it is. I think there's obviously different aspects that impact. So if the young person has a negative experience at contact with their families, that can obviously create a lot of different emotions. If they're having therapy, that can unpack a lot of stuff. So I think we have to make sure that our schools are working. in a trauma informed way, and that they are constantly reviewing that and making sure that they're building positive relationships with our young people, but obviously we need our carers to be making sure that they're providing that information to the school and offering any help that they can as well, because it is about that collaborative relationship and that team around the child. We don't know what all the triggers are, and you know, sometimes I used to say within teaching if the wind had changed, we might have a day where a lot of young people would just, just not having a good day. Um, so there is obviously that to factor in as well, that, you know, there's raging hormones and other stuff going on for young people. Um, so they, that's not always necessarily a way to promote it, but as always, as I said at the start, I think it's about understanding that young person surely and helping them be the best that they can be to, to progress.

Helen:

Yeah. So obviously you have a lot of experience with special educational needs. That's a massive part of your role. I imagine a lot of people going into fostering might be talked to about, you know, children with, with special educational needs being a consideration. What would you say to people that are maybe nervous about that?

Hannah:

I don't, firstly, I don't think there's any reason to be nervous about that. Um, if anything, more people are talking now, there's a lot of adults who are diagnosed a lot older with things like, like ADHD now seems to be more common and more prevalent. So I don't think having a diagnosis changes you as a person. Um, I don't think it, it defines you as a person. I think like with anything, um, it's about learning the strategies to help you be successful. I used to joke with some of the young people. Um, at the school that I worked at before, that actually if I don't have a coffee in the morning, then I'm quite moody. Um, so actually that's the strategy for me. If, if you see me and I'm moody in the morning, potentially offer me a coffee and I might be able to, um, be a much nicer human being. Um, but it's about understanding the strategies that work for that individual and then putting them in place so that they can be successful moving forward. So I think there's, there's There's obviously very extreme cases that are out there that different people hear about that maybe do sound scary. But actually those extreme cases where there are, you know, explosions or maybe aggressive behaviors are because there's inherently an unmet need there for that young person. And it's about helping us. helping them figure out what that is, um, whether that be through therapeutic interventions or anything else like that, or, or different professionals in a school. But it's ultimately about understanding that child, um, and then helping them again, as I keep saying, be the best version of themselves. Um, there are strategies to do that for everyone. Everyone will have their own strategies that work for them. Um, that helped them be more successful. I'm definitely more proactive in the morning. I'm not a night owl. Um, I used to be, I used to think I was at uni, but I definitely am more successful as a morning worker. And then I slowed by the afternoon, but I can do things that work with that. So I can go to support groups where I can buzz off the energy of carers in the afternoon. I do my day tasks in the morning to make sure I balance that out. So I think for a few young people. It's just that in a little bit more of a, um, a formal way, I guess, and working that out.

Helen:

So your role must be really rewarding, Hannah. Is there anything in particular that stood out over the last couple of years, um, where you've thought, you know what, that's, that was a really good job. Well done.

Hannah:

I think it's relative, isn't it? Same with, um, all of our social workers, there will be individual young people who kind of, um, really impact you or get to you, but it is really, it sounds really cheesy. It is absolutely every case that you have a positive impact on because I think we get involved at times where usually where something's gone wrong with this, an exclusion or something like that. Um, and it's about being able to help everyone turn that around and make steps towards that young person progressing. Um, we want them ultimately to be, um, we want everyone to be, um, Uh, contributed members of society who are happy, who feel safe, who, um, understand their emotions and are able to, um, to, to thrive in the world. Um, so it is really about finding what the young person's passionate about. And then I think driving forward with that and helping everyone else kind of throw into that so that, so that that young person supported. So whether it be, you know, you've overturned an exclusion and the young person has gone back into school and it's, it's more settled or, uh, someone's been, um, I don't know. I had a diagnosis and they're trying to understand what it means to have autism and how that will impact them at school and working that through with them. I don't necessarily think there's, there's always kind of, um, yeah, I just, I just think it's, it's all, it's all cases that, you know, that you work on and, and even the ones that maybe don't work out the way you think they should, if you, if you still progress in that case. We only close our cases when everyone is happy and progress has been made. So all of the closed cases that we've done, I feel have positive outcomes. Um, I said Um, before that, um, one of the cases I'd worked on, I suppose, um, was for a, um, lad who, um, had had different therapies and things at school. Um, and I think a lot of stuff had been unpacked, but he didn't feel he was understood at school. He was getting lots of detentions for low level behaviours, which was then making him feel quite resentful at school. Um, but he had a really good relationship with one of his, um, teachers, who was an art teacher, and actually, We used that relationship to try and build up his time back in school because he'd started to school refuse and through it from lessons and things like that. And I think it was then other people were becoming frustrated with him. Um, but actually we used the relationship with the art teacher to build up some school hours. It turned out that he was really struggling with, with the class impact and like lots of interaction all the time and lots of different questions and things like that. And it was agreed that we could do a timetable with him where he went into the art lesson, one lesson a day, where he worked back of the room. Um, and he did some kind of independent study. It was quiet for him. He was in a safe space. He was with a staff member who checked in with him that he felt comfortable with. And actually, by doing that, we were able to build his hours back up into school. He does that with his GCSEs and the summer did really well and has progressed off to college. And actually this is the lad who we often hear that, you know, when therapies are being done and other stuff's happening, there is a lot to unpack there. You've got a lot of emotions and I think it's having a safe space to, to deal with those and understanding that if you're not ready to learn, putting a math paper in front of someone, then It's not going to help, but they're not going to be able to access that if they are emotionally not ready to sit and engage with that. So it was about finding him a safe way to access learning and access school and then build up his, his time again. And he's, he's at college now, he's doing really, really well. Um, his, the college had a handover from the school, which was really, really thorough. So they have a good understanding of how to support him if, if he does, you know, kind of, um, uh, struggle again. Um, so I think that, that's a great case, but that's an example that probably a lot of our carers are going through an experience where detentions are high, you know, some isolations or exclusions are happening and maybe they don't feel that their child is being understood. There's, there's always a way to work that. And I think sometimes the anecdotal evidence is really helpful. And sometimes, you The fact that I'm from education and not social work is also helpful to be able to challenge other educational professionals and get them to think a bit more outside the box and not just use the kind of same heuristic plan that they've been trying. And let's, what else can we try? How, how else can we, can we rebuild this? Um, So yeah, all cases. That was a really long way to end. All the cases are great. Oh,

Helen:

but no, it, your, your work sounds fantastic, Hannah. And it sounds like, you know, everyone, you must be really, really proud of all, all everyone involved really, when you get a really good outcome like that. Um, there was something you said then that I'd like to, to pick up on because we're, I seem to be hearing more and more now about school refusal. And I think, um, For, for parents or carers who've never experienced that, they might not understand what that actually means and what that experience is really like. So could you just tell us a bit about that, about school refusal?

Hannah:

Yeah. So, um, school refusal is obviously for different reasons, but it's ultimately when the child is unable to access school. Um, and it's called school refusal, which obviously massively oversimplifies it because it's not just that the child's saying, no, I don't fancy it today. It's usually that something has happened at school, whether that be, um, bullying, whether that be the work's too hard, but they're maybe not able to admit that. Um, whether it be that they don't feel safe in that environment, they don't feel understood, um, perhaps lots of, of punishments are happening in terms of, like I was saying with this. This young person, lots of detentions, lots of isolations, but different behaviours, which ultimately will make you feel, I suppose, quite resentful. And it's not a place you'd want to be. If that was how my work was and I was being told off every single day, you'd feel really demoralised. So I think the school refusal often comes from a lot of those areas. There's obviously other aspects that, um, in terms of both health difficulties and other anxieties that might impact it as well. But I think. Once a child starts the school refuse, it can start with one or two days, but often it then becomes flat out refusal. And obviously the longer a young person is off, the harder it is to go back in, as it would be with anyone. Um, it becomes a much bigger task. Um, so I think in those situations you end up with quite a withdrawn young person at home, um, who then is not accessing education and it's probably becoming more difficult. more fearful every day of, of what that's going to look like, how they're going to get back in. So with those kind of cases, um, we often work with families to try and identify obviously what the, what the difficulty was at school. Was there, was it that the punishments were too punitive and repetitive? Was it that they were finding certain subjects hard? What is it that was the trigger for them, them being too anxious to be able to attend? Um, and then we work with. The school and the social workers and the family and our carers and the child to try and unpick that and put strategies back in to rebuild. In some extreme cases it might be that the child needs to move school, um, and might move provision. for various issues, or it might be that there is an underlying need there. We need to apply for an educational health care plan if they have additional needs, and then they might move into specialist provision. Um, or it might be that actually a mainstream school environment is too big for them. Um, some of our young people do access alternative provisions or have adapted timetables because that is just too much of a sensory input for them, and there's too much going on, and there's too much pressure, and it's about being able to reduce that into a manageable way. so then build the rapid in, um, so yeah, that, that is how I would describe a on the start.

Helen:

Obviously Hannah, only a few years ago, you know, we told our children that it wasn't, wasn't safe to go to school, you know, during the pandemic. Do you, do you think that had an impact on, on children, maybe refusing to go to school?

Hannah:

Yeah, possibly. Um, I definitely think it's. It's impacted the way education works as a whole, really, because there's a lot more um, providers out there who provide the online education packages. And when there's been a complete breakdown, um, there's different blended programs as well. If a young person has been excluded, often they can join virtual classrooms and things like that. But yeah, definitely based on different ages, obviously with primary school children, the ones who missed kind of year R and year Y were thrown into year two and missed out on a lot more play based learning, um, will, I think, definitely struggle with them going into a very structured environment because that is meant to be staggered so that they do adjust to that. Um, I think the ones who missed out on transitioning to secondary school very, very similarly, the year seven, year eight being thrown into year nine and expected to pick GCSEs and have the knowledge for that definitely had an impact. Obviously, schools tried to provide a quality of education, um, while they were out. But I definitely think the relationship building, um, and, and friendships and peer relations and everything else will have had a massive impact on the. on those cohorts. Um, I do think schools are trying, um, there's a lot of different pastoral support. There's been different catch up funding and things like that, that have been out there, that education has been able to put in place to try and, um, I guess, close the gaps in terms of the anxiety for young people. Um, but for our young people where transition is extra difficult anyway, because they've been removed from homes and a lot, and a lot of them have had different moves anyway, I think it can be a challenge. be exceptionally difficult and, and can probably exacerbate the issue further.

Helen:

So the work that, that you and your team do at the National Fostering Group, Hannah, would you say it really makes NFG stand out? Yeah, I mean, without sounding really

Hannah:

Arabic, I do, I do think it does. I know that, um, I've got, um, friends who, um, have been social, uh, have been foster carers and social workers for local authorities and, um, will still come and ask me for, for help because of my education background. And I think if you don't know the educational acronyms and everything else, and all the jargon, like it is really difficult. And if you've not lived that experience, not having someone who understands that can, can really cause problems. issues that are unnecessary and can leave young people continuing to be excluded or suspended. And actually, if, if we still intervene earlier, I do think it makes a massive difference. And we do have, um, less serious cases as, as, as I've worked here. So there's obviously still exclusions everywhere, but I think being able to be involved earlier and be part of that team around the child leads to more positive outcomes, leads to me being able to close my cases because That child is now settled and feeling safe and happy. So I do think having, having the educational support on hand makes a massive difference to our carers. We get a lot of positive feedback about that. There's a lot of feedback from carer support groups and team agents that we go to that say, Oh my God, I've worked somewhere else. And we haven't had this before. Like this is, this is great to be able to be like, Oh, can you pop into a pet with me? Because they were talking about this and I didn't realize. Understand what that meant. And what's a PEP? pupil education plan. Meeting in school. Um, obviously an example of the, the jargon. Um, but yeah, educational meeting in school, um, for children in care. Um, but I always joke that my other half's a social worker. Um, and I'll go into meetings and they'll talk about the social work job. And then I'm like, what's the section 50 Lorraine, what's, what's this about? Um, I think it's the same with social workers. Um, where they're like, Oh my God, they were talking about this. And I, I'd sort of thought I understood, but they're a little rude to this. And now this is happening. So actually I think even being on the hand and being able to respond in real time, um, we expect all of the professionals around our children to be making the right choices, but I think sometimes they can plow on in a way that they normally would not always think creatively about things that we could be doing. So I hope that we, we bring some of that to, to, to our foster families and are able to. Get positive outcomes a lot quicker, um, than other options. And also, I think, avoid some of the issues. So if a young person has gone, um, late, so not in educational employment or training, we can throw in a lot of support a lot earlier than waiting for different funding to be approved and different things to be done. Um, we're a lot more able to, to respond in real time and talk to them about different career options and, and what we could be doing and access different things for them than I think other, other people are able to provide.

Helen:

Well, it's been fantastic talking to you today, Hannah. Thank you so much for joining us. Just before you go, if anybody listening, so obviously we have a lot of people who listen to the podcast who we're thinking about becoming a foster carer, but they'll have all sorts of different questions and worries in their head. And one of them might be, you know, what if I have a child or young person who, who displays difficult behaviors and has problems at school? And, you know, what, what would I do? How would you reassure them? Because obviously we know that there's people like you that are going to be there to support. I think

Hannah:

within the agencies, because And within the wider group, actually, the amount of specialists that we now have in terms of education, in terms of experience supervising social workers and OT managers and everyone else that's around the child. I would hope that that those roles in itself alleviate some of those, those worries because actually you're coming in. to a team. You're not coming in to do this on your own. Um, with the local authority who, who, you know, it's not going to be given a child and that's it. Off you go. We're all here to help at the different aspects. So if there are different challenges that arise, there are different people who are there to advocate with you, who are there to champion with you, who are there to support you like, like a wider family, really. Um, so I think. Fostering is incredibly, um, rewarding, um, and equally challenging, um, but actually the rewards that you get once you come through those challenges with the help of, uh, my team, um, all of the other staff at LFG, I think, um, That T refer is, is what makes it easier.

Helen:

Wonderful. Well, thank you so, so much for talking to us today, Hannah. Uh, take care. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Voices of Fostering. If you'd like to find out more, head online and search National Fostering Group and make this the year you foster.