Carol: I foster but my family foster with me too.

Coming up in episode 4. We meet Carol and her daughter Emma and hear their incredible story of how being a fostering family has shaped their lives, from her adopting her foster child Ryan to how they all come together to support each other in difficult times. Carol has a wealth of experience and this is an incredible episode to listen to. 

If you would like to find out more about fostering please visit our website here.

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Transcript

As everyday people, we don't always have a chance to tell our story to be heard, but everyone's got a story, haven't they? And this is Carol and Emma’s. Hello ladies. Thank you so much for joining me. 

Carol

Hi. 

Emma

Hi. 

Interviewer

How are you both today? 

Carol

Very well, thank you. <laugh>, feeling a bit nervous. 

Interviewer

You’re okay. 

Carol

Sorry, <laugh>. 

Interviewer

Well, I know you are a great talker, Carol, and you've got such a story to tell us. So firstly, just tell me about both of you. So, you’re mother and daughter. 

Carol/Emma

Yeah. 

Interviewer

And fostering is intertwined into your lives, isn't it? So, so tell me about what you both do.

Carol

Well, I'm a foster carer. I've been a foster carer for, uh, 12 years now. 

Interviewer

Wow. 

Carol

Um, and I've done it since my children grew up. It's just something we've always wanted to do, and Emma helps along with her siblings, and we are a foster family, really. 

Interviewer

Yeah. And you've really taken fostering into your heart and put it into your career, haven't you? So, tell us about that.

Emma

Yeah, absolutely. So, I started working for National Fostering Group eight years ago as a recruitment officer, so recruiting new foster carers. 

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Emma

Um, and as mum said, I also, you know, support looking after the young people as and when I can. So I foster, it's in my professional life and personal life as well. 

Interviewer

Yeah. So, you were inspired, really, I would imagine by your mum and her fostering story. So tell us about that. You're about 18, weren't you, when it started? 

Emma

Yeah. So I was about 18, which is really strange to say because I also can't remember a time when we weren’t fostering, really, even though, you know, I was sort of 18 and yeah, you know, becoming an adult. I can't remember when we didn't foster as well. Yeah. 

Interviewer

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. 

Emma

Um, but yeah, absolutely. So I, I had just finished uni at the time I started working for  National Fostering Group. I was looking for a job, and this job stood out to me because it was with a fostering agency. And I don't think, if I wasn't part of a fostering family, maybe I would've looked at that. 

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Emma

So I absolutely… I saw what my mum and dad do and saw the job for recruiting new carers, and I thought I could find new foster carers.

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Emma

Like my mum. Um, and that would be doing a really impactful thing because I see what, you know, the result of fostering in our family… so I can find more families like them.

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Emma

And, you know, you know it inside out and you, you know, the sort of lived experience of fostering. 

Interviewer

Definitely.

Emma

It helps when you're talking to people thinking of fostering. Yeah. You know, you're coming at it from a professional, uh, standpoint, but then you can say, ‘oh, but actually, you know, I can answer your questions from a personal perspective’. 

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Emma

Because I know what this is like, or that's like, um, because a lot of the time we get people saying, ‘oh, it might really negatively impact my birth children’. 

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Emma

And I can say, ‘oh, well I was one of those birth children. And actually, you know, it's really positive’. Um, so that tends to help as well.

Interviewer

Yeah. So going back to, you know, that decision 12 years ago, you know, you have birth children .

Carol

mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Interviewer

You've got other children as well as as Emma, haven't you?

Carol

I have. I've got four birth children. Yeah.

Interviewer

Yeah. So, four birth children. Tell us about that decision, Carol. Really, you know, like how, how you came to it, why you decided to foster, and, and how you took into consideration how it would affect you, your birth children and your family.

Carol

Well, I used to go to school with a girl who, um, came from another country and she was placed with foster carers. Her parents had died, I believe, and she was placed with foster carers. And I remember she said to me, ‘if it weren't for my foster carers, I don’t know where I'd be today’. And it just really, really stuck. And I thought, I'm gonna be a foster carer one day. And it was really young. 

Interviewer

That was when you were a child? 

Carol

That was when I was a child. I was about 11/12. Um, so I met, married, had children, spoke to my hubby about it, and he was all for it as well. He, you know, we looked into it when the children were really quite young.  Um, and after going to meetings, we decided that our children were too young because the foster children would take up a lot of our time, would have challenging needs, would need more of our attention than we could give them with having four birth children.

Interviewer

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. 

Carol

So we decided to put it on hold and wait. And we waited until our youngest was 13 until we started, and then we did it again. And the children have been brilliant, absolutely accepting of every child that comes through the door. Two of them still lived at home when we started fostering, and they just took it on the chin and did really well. And, you know, and if I had a child that had a meltdown, they would either help me, you know, they'd try and talk to the child, play with the child. 

Interviewer

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Carol

Um, yeah, they've done really well. So, yeah. So, it was better that the children were a bit older to, to understand the children coming into our home had not had the life they'd had.

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Carol

You know.

Interviewer

Because deciding to foster isn't a quick overnight decision.

Carol

Absolutely not. No. 

Interviewer

It's something that you really have to think about, isn't it? And sometimes it isn't the right time, is it? 

Carol

No. 

Interviewer

And, you know, did you always think when you decided it wasn't the right time, you thought, you know, one day it will be? 

Carol

Oh, absolutely. It was something I've always wanted to do, and it's the best decision I've ever made. And don't get me wrong, we've had some tough times. We've had some really tough times, but you know what, you come out the other side and just carry on. Yeah

Interviewer

So can you remember your, your first placement and how…

Carol

Oh, yeah. 

Interviewer

There's a story there, isn't there? Tell us about your first placement.

Carol

Before I was a foster care, I worked in a primary school with, um, a young man with special needs. He left. Um, and then I was in the classroom and I thought, ‘no, I want more than this’. So I went into fostering and then went through it, passed at panel, handed my notice in. On the day I was leaving the school, that same day I got a phone call, ‘could I take this, uh, young lady who was, uh, she'd gone seven the week before’. And they said the police are picking her up from school and bringing her, she's coming with the clothes on her back.

Interviewer

Okay. 

Carol

So I said, ‘right’. So they said, ‘nip to Asda’. So I said, ‘right, she's gone seven, shall I get six to seven or seven to eight?’ They said ‘you need to get about three to four’. She was so neglected and her head's ‘walking’. She walked through my door. Oh Lord. My first thought was, ‘what have I done?’ There was this little dot with her hair, you could just see the nits in her hair. And she was filthy. She'd got no teeth because all she'd ever been given was a cup of tea with sugar in, in a baby bottle. And oh, she just, yeah…. In the bath. But you know what, we had her for eight months and she came on so far and, you know, she's just adorable. And, you know, she just, she wants you. Yeah. She would… even to this day, I’d love to see her again.

Interviewer

So Yeah. Emma, tell me about, seeing her, about your memories of this experience. Were you at home at that point? 

Emma

Uh, I think… was I at university? 

Carol

You were at uni at that point.

Emma 

But I remember her as clear as day. 

Interviewer

mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Emma

And gosh, this was 12 years ago. Yeah. I remember meeting her for the first time and I remember when she left. Yeah. Um, cause we were all really emotional when she left. 

Carol

Yeah, we were. 

Emma

Um, but I just remember seeing the transformation in there because she was absolutely a different child when she left us 12 years ago, but I can still remember her as clearly as if it was yesterday.

Interviewer

So how, how did that feel to, you know, eight months later when you, you know, when she left and you thought back to the child that came to, you know? 

Carol

Well, that's the thing. I mean, no matter how much training you do, nothing, nothing prepares you for them going Yeah. When you've built that attachment and you try not to cry. And she was going and she was moving in with her sister. She'd got quite a lot of siblings, but she was going with one of her sisters to a long-term foster carer, long-term placement.

Interviewer

mm-hmm. <affirmative>. 

Carol

And so we'd run through what would happen. We'd spoke to her and everything. And on the day that she left, oh, well, I won't tell you what she said to me because I just absolutely broke down. And it was just wonderful and I absolutely sobbed. But what you have to think of is, look at the day she came and look at the day she left, and look what you did for her in between 

Interviewer

mm-hmm. <affirmative>. 

Carol

And, you know, um, sadly for certain reasons, we were, we were supposed to keep in touch with Letterbox Contact, but that's not happened due to certain things. Um, but I do know she's doing really well because I had, as you know, children have, um, a looked-after nurse, children in care have a looked-after nurse. 

Interviewer

Okay. 

Carol

And about three, well, two or three years ago I was looking after, um, a young man and his looked-after nurse came, and I have a picture of every child I’ve fostered on my wall. And she came and she looked and went ‘I know that little girl up there, of course, she's a lot older now.’ And I went, ‘that's my first placement’. And she went.. I said, ‘is she alright?’ She went, ‘she's doing amazing. Absolutely amazing’. And I just stood and cried and I was just so relieved, 

Interviewer

<laugh>

Carol

You know, and I went, ‘well, next time you go see her, just say, ‘I said, hi’. So <laugh>, that's something. So. Yeah. So I know she's doing well. But you have to just look how they walk through the door Yeah. And how they were when the left. 

Interviewer

So she'll be 19. She's 19. 

Carol

She's 19. And I mean the only sad thing is I've moved area. So, but I said to my friend - my best friend lives over the road from – ‘if she knocks on that door, tell her where I am’. So <laugh>. Yeah.

Interviewer

So you say you've got pictures of all the children. 

Carol

Every single one of them all. 

Interviewer

So how many is that? 

Carol

22.

Interviewer

22. 22 children?

Carol

Yeah. 

Interviewer

Wow. And do you think about them all regularly? Like, what are they up to…

Carol

Every single one of them, yeah. Some of them we're still in touch with… the older ones, the teens, um, we're still in touch with. I think about every single one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Interviewer

So, tell me about your son, your adoptive son. Um, he came to you as a foster placement. 

Carol

He did. 

Interviewer

And you've adopted him? 

Carol

We've adopted him. 

Interviewer

So Ryan, tell me all about him. 

Carol

Yeah, they rang up. Would I take in Ryan who was 21-month. He was in hospital, he's got Downs Syndrome. He'd had open heart surgery twice before he came to us. He's got a cleft lip and palate, he's peg fed. And I'm thinking, ‘oh Carol, this is too much’. And my hubby just went, ‘well, if we do it, who will? Let's give it a go’. So I went to meet him in the hospital and Oh, this tiny, oh, just adorable….

And yeah, we brought him home. He had contact with mum and dad. He had contact with, he's got a birth sister. He had contact with her. And then, um, my girls, ‘oh mum, let's adopt him if we can’. And I’m ‘no, I'm too old. I'm too old’. And then he fell ill when he was about four/four and a half. And it still hadn't been decided his future, but it looked like he was going for adoption.

Interviewer

mm-hmm. <affirmative>. 

Carol

And he fell very poorly. And we had to rush him to the hospital. And the surgeon said ‘he might not make it’. His lungs had flooded, he was so poorly. And I came out crying, out of the anaesthetic room, and I just rang my hubby and I went, ‘ring his social worker. If he comes out of there, we're adopting him’ and the rest is history. So we did. We adopted him, and he was about five when we adopted him. He's now 11. 

Interviewer

Wow. 

Carol

He’s a little monster <laugh>, but he’s absolutely adorable. Honestly. Really is adorable. Everybody is just… he’s so loved. He's so loved. Yeah. 

Interviewer

So you've talked about how, you know, there obviously are placements where you do have to let them go. 

Carol

Yeah. 

Interviewer

But, tell me about that decision for Ryan to say with you and, and how important that was and how it felt.

Carol

I just think for, for Ryan, because people say I… I've fostered babies, and they've gone, ‘oh, why are you letting them go?’ And they're going for adoption. I've had my children, I've had my children. There's people out there that cannot have children. So, as much as it's very hard moving these babies on, it's to people that probably, if they're not going home, it's to people who cannot have their own children. But for Ryan, he has so many medical needs, and they did look, social services did look for a match. There was just nobody because Ryan doesn't have a long life expectancy. Um, at, you know, are we looking at mid to late twenties tops they say. 

And so when I knew that he might not actually come out of that theatre, I just thought, ‘we are the only people that will keep this boy. We are the only people that can meet his needs. We know him. We're the only people he knows as a family’. 

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Carol

Um, because, you know, he did see mum and dad now and again, but they didn't turn up often. And so he, he didn't really… mum couldn't understand why he wouldn't go to her, you know? And I just thought, ‘we're the only ones that…’ And we did love him. There's no two ways… We absolutely love the bones of him. And, you know, I can't imagine him being put into a residential home. I just couldn't let that happen. Um, so yeah. And we just decided we'd, we'd keep him <laugh>.

Interviewer

So he has a birth sister, doesn't he? 

Carol 

He does have a birth sister, yeah. Who's just a little bit younger than him. Yeah.

Interviewer

Yeah. So, she's been adopted with another family, hasn’t she?

Carol

She has.  Yeah, she has. Yeah. 

Interviewer

But they do have contact.

Carol

They do.

Interviewer

And there's a real connection between them, isn't there? Tell me about that. 

Carol

Yeah. So his sister, um, has gone to a lovely family. Has been adopted by a lovely family. Has got another sister there, and we stay in touch. We send messages, we swap school photos. If we're doing anything, we send photographs and everything. Um, and then last year she messaged me, did her mum, and said, ‘we’re up in your area, is there any chance we can come and see you?’ So I said ‘absolutely’. Now we do have his sister, he has got pictures of her on his bedroom wall. Yeah. We've got them in the living room and we always say, you know, goodnight to her, you know, and everything. So, he sees her picture and we change it every time we get an updated one. 

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Carol

And they came. You were there, weren’t you? [To Emma]. And I kept saying, ‘oh, she's coming today, she's coming today’. And they pulled up and I've got quite a long path. And they pulled up and they opened the door and I'm going, ‘Ryan she's here, she's here’. And he stood looking and she got out of the car and they just ran to each other, didn't they? Like they've never been apart. They just hugged. And then he got hold of her hand, her brought her in and I mean, she's taller than him - even though she's younger, she's taller - but he led her in. He took her shoes off, and then they went to the playroom and, oh, it was just lovely. And then when it was time to leave, he was upset. He didn't cry, but he ‘no, no, no’, he didn't want her to go. He can’t… He’s nonverbal, but he can say the odd, you know, he is going, ‘no, no’. And she was crying ‘I don't want to leave my brother’. 

And the funny thing, uh, her mum messaged last week and apparently they’d been talking about jobs. And, her teacher said to her, uh, ‘what are you gonna do when you leave?’ She said, ‘oh, I'm not going to work’. So teacher said, ‘what do you mean not going to work?’ She went, ‘no, I'm just going to get a nice home so that I can look after my brother’. Oh. And I just thought, ‘awww’. So, yeah. Yeah. So, so it's great that they've got this relationship and they're still in touch. And, and her sister that she's got with mum and dad, we treat her as family as well. We treat her…. She's Ryan's sister as well, you know.

Interviewer

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so his, his sister's mother, I imagine you have quite a sort of good relationship with her and, you know, you support each other. 

Carol

Absolutely. Yeah. Because I, I know Ryan's mum and dad, obviously through contact - we had contact for a few years before it, it was finalised in court. And so I know them, I know their story. Um, and of course her mum doesn't. She knows bits, but she never met them. 

Interviewer

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. 

Carol 

So Ryan sister started asking mum about her birth mum. So she messaged me and just said, you know, ‘can you…?’ And they've got their life story books 

Interviewer 

mm-hmm <affirmative>

Carol

But I could tell her a bit more, from a parent point of view, you know 

Interviewer

mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Carol 

Which has really helped, you know, she can sit her down and tell her, tell her little bits about her mum and dad. Because, to be fair, she was very, very close to her dad, uh, which surprised me when she started asking about mum, because mum didn't have much to do with her, whereas dad did.

Interviewer

 mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Carol

But no, she did start asking questions and I could answer a few of those questions for her.

Interviewer

Yeah. So, so her mum is sort of part of your support network, I suppose. What, what does the rest of that network look like for you? 

Carol

My support network? 

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Carol

My children. Yeah. Absolutely. 100%. If it weren't for my children, my birth children, I don't think I'd be able to do it. Because it's challenging. It's not an easy job. You've got to remember that these children are in your home 24 7. So if you have a bad day, which believe me, you do with some of the children, you are not going home on a night. You know, when you worked in a school, if you had a bad day, you're going home. They're in your home. And so, um, my children - Emma in particular - will move in and let me and my hubby have a week, 10 days on holiday.

Interviewer

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> 

Carol

Without the children. Um, my social worker - amazing. Absolutely amazing. I wouldn’t be able to do it without her. The social worker I had before when we lived in Bradford, we had… we went through a really, really difficult time. And she were absolutely fantastic, absolutely brilliant. Um, and it's taken me a lot to get over what happened. And they got me counselling, the whole of the NFG, they were all there. All the way up. I got letters and support. And even now, when it's coming up to the anniversary of what happened, ‘do you need to speak to the counsellor?’ ‘Do you need some support?’ You need support. And so my children and my… I have a really good social worker. Yeah. 

Interviewer

So, Emma, from your perspective, as - you know - your professional perspective, how important is it for people to have this support network? Like your mum's described?

Emma

It's essential. It's absolutely essential. But I think what people need to be aware of is support comes in many forms. So lots of people rule themselves out thinking, ‘oh, I've not got birth children, or I've not got family members nearby’. But it comes with your friends, you know? 

Interviewer

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Emma

We've got foster carers who have an amazing support network made up of friends and not sort of family. So you really do need support because it's challenging. But that support can come from wherever you have that support.

Interviewer

So yeah. It can be challenging, can't it? 

Carol

Yeah. Yeah. 

Interviewer

Tell me about some of the, the more challenging moments of, of the last 12 years, Carol, and how you overcame them, really. Have there ever been any points where you thought, ‘you know what, I can't do this’?

Carol

Yeah. One in particular. So, I got a phone call - would I take in a 13 year old who was pregnant?’ She was in a secure, - I don’t know how much I’m allowed to say - she was in a secure unit up in Scotland and I was basically the last resort. So they came down, we talked through it. They talked me through what she'd done, why she was in the secure unit. And I was thinking… I had to, of course I've got to think of Ryan.

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Carol

Um, because he's non-verbal. So I have to put Ryan's safety first, massively, because I can't safeguard a child that could on purpose, physically harm him, cause he couldn't tell me. Um, anyway, we decided this social worker guaranteed - well guaranteed as much as she could - that this girl... 

So she came. She was wonderful. She was six months pregnant. Went through it all with her. Um, we started learning about babies. We were buying things, she were choosing names. She was there when… I was there when she went to labour. Uh, she did fabulous and had a beautiful baby. For the first six weeks she was wonderful, absolutely wonderful. And then after six weeks, didn't want it anymore. Uh, didn't want to be a mum. She loved him. There's absolutely no way… she loved, loved him to bits. She wasn't ready to be a mum. And she was meeting up with the wrong people.

Um, she was bringing drugs into my home, which I then had to ring 111 and record that I'd got the drugs and I was taking them to the police station in case I got stopped with the drugs. Um, because obviously I can't pass them onto a social worker or anybody cause that’s classed as dealing apparently, so I couldn't do that. So I used to ring 111, say ‘she's brought drugs in, they are here, I'm going onto such and such police station, they'll be in my car’. So there was logs that I was taking them.

But she was hanging around with the really wrong people. Um, we managed to get the name of one, um, and the police were heavily involved. But why it was difficult is because as much as she'd had a baby, she was a child herself.  She was 14, I think a couple of weeks before she had him. So she was a child herself. And what I couldn't get through to the local authority is ‘yes, you're caring about this baby, but you are not caring about her and she's a child’. Now as a foster care, you do logs. And I used to spend… I used to do them once a week on a Sunday. But for her, I did them every single day because there's so much to put in. And I kept telling the local authority, ‘I can't keep her safe. I can't keep her safe. She's going off’. The only plus was she'd leave the baby at home. So he was safe. 

She would go off with the really wrong people. And the police come and said, ‘where's that…’ We got a name for the chap eventually that she was seeing - the police came and said, ‘where's the baby?’ I said, ‘he's in, he is in, you know…’ ‘I need to see him’. They saw him. And they did find her. And it actually went to court. The police took it to court and the judge actually called for my logs and said to social services, ‘why have you not listened to this foster carer? Because as much as she's had a baby, she's a child.’

And um, yeah. She was… she was taken away and moved. Moved miles away. Absolutely miles away. Um, that it was tough. It was tough because every day she was going off with these men that, you know…

Interviewer

That does sound like such a challenging time for you. 

Carol

Yeah. 

Interviewer

But I feel like sometimes in those challenging moments, you, you learn the most, don't you?

Carol

Yeah, absolutely.

Interviewer

And do you feel like you, you learn a lot from that? What, what did you take from that which probably serves you well, you know, as you, as you carried on being a foster carer? 

Carol

Well, it's just, you don't give up on them. I mean, I didn't. I wanted her to move, but I didn't. I only wanted her to move for her safety and the baby's safety. Uh, but it's.. you can't give up on them. You've got to listen, but you've just got to keep fighting, fighting, fighting their corner. Because without being awful… foster carers are quite low down in the pecking order. But the foster care is the one that knows the children. They live with these children, they know these children. Um, and so now if I have a child that's challenging or need something, I will fight. I mean, I did before, but even more so. 

Interviewer

Yeah. 

Carol

Will fight tooth and nail… She did have a happy ending. She did lose custody of him. He went to paternal grandma. Um, but last year - I think last year - she sent me a message and she just put, ‘hi, I know you don't want to talk to me’. And I went, ‘oh my God’. She went, ‘but I just want to tell you, I've turned my life around. I've moved out of the area I lived in and I've got him back’. And she sent me pictures of him and I just sat and cried. And now every so often she'll just send me a text and a picture of him. He’s started school, he started school last September and she sent me a picture of him in his uniform. 

Interviewer

Awww. 

Carol

So it was just so… But a lot don't turn their life around. But she did. She, because she loved him. But at 13 she just wasn't ready to be a mum. 

Interviewer

Yes. We've, we've talked about the challenging times, but what, what have some of the best moments been, the really rewarding ones like that. Oh, because that, that started off as a challenging story, but actually that had a really positive ending.

Carol

Yeah. It did. It did in the end. It did in the end. She had a… it did. She, I mean she had a, she had a tough life. I mean… She had a tough, tough life. She didn't have…. Yeah. So I'm proud of her. So proud that she's turned around.

Just seeing the children grow. I mean we've had some good stories, haven’t we? We've just moved a little chap on now, he’s gone to his birth auntie and uncle and it's just wonderful. He was two last week. He was… he never slept, never ate. Just nothing. And he's gone to aunt and uncle. But just to see him now. And they send pictures. He was a little page boy at the wedding and just seeing the difference as they change….

The young lady we're fostering now, she's 13. Before she came to us, she had been to nine primary schools and she trusted nobody. And she didn't even have the time of day for her mum. She blamed her mum for being in care. Now she's been with us two and a half years and she's a totally different girl. Loves mum. She runs up to her, gives her a hug. She's settled into school. Cause I said, ‘you're not going anywhere, you're staying with me no matter what you put me through’. Cause the two we've got now are long-term. So they're staying until they finish their education. Uh, siblings - brother and sister. And I think she finally, finally believes that she's going nowhere and she's staying at that school. And we've had our moments.  But, you know, she's 13 so the teens are coming…. But she's lovely. And to see the difference. Even her mum… her mum bought me a card and just said, ‘thank you so much for the work you've done with her’. Because they now have a relationship. It's not the best, but they have a relationship which they never had before. Yeah. You know. 

Interviewer

Um, Emma, your mum is ace <laugh>. 

Emma

That she is. Yeah.

Interviewer

What’s it like to have a mother that's so inspirational? Please tell me, how proud does it make you to see, you know, the impact that your mum has had on so many children's lives? 

Emma 

It's just incredible. And, and it's funny to say because for now, for us, it's sort of day-to-day life. But when you sit back and think you've changed the lives of 22 children.

Interviewer

mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. 

Emma 

Who can say that, you know? And I always think if I could just bottle my mum and dad, we'd have all the foster… I’d be out of a job <laugh> because we'd have all the foster carers we need. And it's lovely to see, and for me it's things like when the children come back. So, um, I have a little girl and we had a christening for her. [To Carol] And, um, how old was Josh?

So my mom fostered a little boy called Josh. He was young at the time. 

Carol

He was our second placement. He was 11. He was 11 at the time. He's 23/24 now. Yeah.

Emma

And we invited him to my little girl’s christening and he came. And he is this fully grown man. 

Carol 

Yeah. With the voice <laugh>. 

Emma

And he's got, you know, he's got a partner and they're living together and you think, ‘wow’, you know, we've seen you, you were 12, you're now 20-odd and you're now just part of our life. 

Carol

He is. 

Emma

And our family. And you know, that's just so lovely to see. 

Carol

He is. Yeah. And he says to his… He’s lovely, he's absolutely… he's our second placement and he is just the most adorable. But he had a happy ending… He went back to stepdad, believe it or not. So, he had a brother and sister and he went back to their dad and his dad took him in and took him under his wing and they did. But he will say to his girl, ‘if it wasn’t for these, I wouldn’t be where I am today.’ And that's just lovely. And he still says it at 23/24. Yeah. Cause he's coming down to visit us. He says – cause he's car mad, car mad, always has been - so he is just getting a new car and he’s coming to visit. He’s always… from the day he’s left, he's been part of our life. Which is, it's lovely. 

Emma

Yeah.

Interviewer

So there are a lot of people who, you know, don't have it in them to, to do what you've done or they, they’ve just never thought about it. 

Carol

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Interviewer

What, what is it within you, Carol, in your heart, that that makes you want to do this. That feels that, that you need to? Is it something that you feel you need to give to society? 

Carol

No, I just think… I've always loved children. I’ve always wanted to work with children. When I were little, I always wanted to work with children. Um, I just think that friend, many years ago when she said that…

Interviewer

Back to that again. Yeah.

Carol

These children are not born into these situations. These children don't ask for. And not all the parents are bad. You know, not all the parents have done… Some parents have got a lot of personal things going on, hence why they can't look after the children. But the children don't ask for these starts in life. And so, for me, they deserve to have a home, you know. And some go home, some go to long-term foster care, you know, um, some go on to supported, independent level. Some get adopted if they're younger. Um, and that's up to social work, social services to decide, you know. 

But they just need a home… whether it's for a month, a week, a weekend. If they've come for respite or long-term, they just deserve a little bit of happiness, a little bit of normality. Clothes on their back, food in the belly. You know, going back to our first placement, she were never fed. She used to hide food, you know, and I'd be cleaning and think, ‘God, there’s half a sandwich here’ You know? And she'd say, ‘well what if you don't feed me?’ I said, ‘listen, you'll always be fed’. She never did it again. You know, ‘the fruit bowl's always full’. And so just to give them some normality and what it's like to be in a family because they've never known it, you know.

Interviewer

Thank you so much, Carol and Emma. It's been wonderful speaking to you both. 

Carol

Thank you. 

Emma

Thank you. 

Interviewer

Thank you so much for sharing your stories with us. 

Carol

You're welcome. 

Interviewer

And if you've been inspired by Emma and Carol, head to our website to find out more: nfa.co.uk.